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Author Topic: One thing that confuses me....*Spoilers*  (Read 1453 times)
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RogerWilco81

Crustacean
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« on: 06-30-2008 12:14 »

I thought the rip in the universe was caused by a paradox overload...but after Yivo decides to leave the hole magically repairs...so was it Yivo's doing and not a reprocussion of the events of BBS??

And...at first I was disappointed about the lack of Fry and Leela's relationship...but after thinking about it, it's been a month and maybe Fry FINALLY realized after Lars that the only him she'll love is not the REAL him...I'm glad he finally wised up!!! Go Fry!!

I mean...Niles and Daphne became a little dull after they finally got together....
Binder

Starship Captain
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« Reply #1 on: 06-30-2008 13:02 »

The hole was a repercussion of BBS, no doubt. Yivo mentioned that shlee had made contact with Earth in the past (sending his image to our artists), so I'm sure shlee has the power to open and close tears. The tear in BWBB created during BBS was made without Yivo's knowledge. Yivo didn't use the tear until Fry entered, and didn't close the tear until Fry hurt shlers feelings.
NastyInThePasty

Professor
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« Reply #2 on: 06-30-2008 22:30 »

That's a good point about Yivo making the tear in the Universe repair itself.
Kifz

Bending Unit
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« Reply #3 on: 07-04-2008 14:58 »

I also noticed how easily and "magically" the rip in the universe got repaired near the end. They might as well drawn in the magic wand that did it. Real credible, yeah.
Kryten

Space Pope
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« Reply #4 on: 07-04-2008 15:29 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Kifz:
I also noticed how easily and "magically" the rip in the universe got repaired near the end. They might as well drawn in the magic wand that did it. Real credible, yeah.

Repeat to yourself "It's just a show, I should really just relax."
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #5 on: 07-04-2008 17:55 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Kifz:
I also noticed how easily and "magically" the rip in the universe got repaired near the end. They might as well drawn in the magic wand that did it. Real credible, yeah.
Any more or less credible than a tenticle-alien the size of a planet?
Or said alien reaching through the aforementioned rip in space-time?
Or said alien wanting to carry-on a 'relationship' with every-single sentient organism in our universe?
Or any one of a HUNDRED other science-fiction conventions parodied in Futurama?
Quote
Originally posted by Kryten:
Repeat to yourself "It's just a show, I should really just relax."
What he said.  wink
Nice new avy there, Kryten.
New to me, at least...
Kifz

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #6 on: 07-05-2008 20:08 »

Sure, its just a show, usually a very good show. And usually a science fiction show, with some basis on part what have been written over the years by talented and original authors, sci-fi authors. The leap into fantasy-fiction is whole different ballgame.
Just wanted to point this out. No hard feelings.  smile
Kryten

Space Pope
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« Reply #7 on: 07-05-2008 23:50 »

So, the engine that works by moving the entiire universe was FAR more believable?
Ralph Snart

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« Reply #8 on: 07-06-2008 13:04 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Kryten:

So, the engine that works by moving the entiire universe was FAR more believable?

Once you get past flying to the moon in two seconds, accepting that an entire race of mutate beings live in the sewers and a Cyclops wearing skin-tight stretch pants that gives her a camel-toe, then the engine that moves the universe around it isn't quite as perposterous.

Anarchy_Balsac
Bending Unit
***
« Reply #9 on: 07-06-2008 20:16 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Kryten:
So, the engine that works by moving the entiire universe was FAR more believable?

Depends, it's based on an existing theory about how we may be able to exceed the speed of light. Not that I find it all that believable myself mind you.....
Bones

Bending Unit
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« Reply #10 on: 07-07-2008 08:21 »

Sure, blame the wizards!
dr.bender nye

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #11 on: 07-08-2008 07:18 »
« Last Edit on: 07-08-2008 07:18 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Bones:
Sure, blame the wizards!
...with their saphires that opens the gate of Garash.
Yivo didn't know about the rip is possible, but maybe if you wish for something really desperatly, it can happen. Now, THAT'S magic
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #12 on: 07-08-2008 18:44 »

Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
winna

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« Reply #13 on: 07-08-2008 19:27 »

The tear was caused by our universe in BBS...  Our universe ripped at the seams because of the duplicate benders...  However, Yivo exceeds the laws of our own universe.  I believe this sufficient enough to explain how schklee could close the rift.

I think there's a small misunderstanding here though.  I don't believe the rift or Yivo interacted with just Earth; I know they didn't explain this very much, but it's my belief that the rift appeared throughout the universe and that it contradicts our own concepts about how objects interact in space.  To explain briefly, it was the same rift.... However, it appeared in multiple locations (thousands, billions, trillions?).  Furthermore, Yivo interacted with primitive species from several worlds, and that other worlds created similar ideals about heaven.

These aren't magic, there's reason to believe all of it possible with a little abstract thought, things like our universe existing on something more than a simple 3-dimensional plane; and that Yivo has the ability to interact with our universe in a way we are unfamiliar with... Yivo isn't from our universe, a whole different set of physics apply to schklim. 

The engine that moves the entire universe is totally plausible in my mind as well..... if it's difficult for you to imagine, think of the way it travels more like a wormhole.  There's theories that we can shrink and stretch pieces of the universe.  A vessel travelling through space from point A to point B could shrink the space in front of it toward point B, then once it passes this space, it stretches that same space back to its original size behind it.  Futurama has also suggested that the speed of light is not the constant we once believed it was.  The speed of light was changed in the 23rd century.... there's scientific evidence to suggest that this is itself also true...  Increasing the speed of light increases the speed at which most objects can traverse the universe.

Lastly... since when does somebody make a comparison of relationships in Futurama with Frasier?  Point taken though... it's a general rule of television.  Fry discusses it in When Aliens Attack when he explains why McNeil can't get married.
ShepherdofShark

Space Pope
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« Reply #14 on: 07-08-2008 19:58 »

Very true about the speed of light there, winna. From what I understand (which is very little) the speed of light is certainly not the constant that Einstein theorised.

There is no reason why Yivo cannot take advantage of and even exceed our current understanding of the laws of science.

That's what being a magical elf scientist is all about.
Frida Waterfall

Professor
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« Reply #15 on: 07-08-2008 20:06 »

I haven't been giving much thought to the physics of the other universe, but you did explain it well.

I don't know if this will classify as off-topic, or just downright annoying, but I want to add my two cents on one of your paragraphs.

 
Quote
Originally posted by winna:
The engine that moves the entire universe is totally plausible in my mind as well..... if it's difficult for you to imagine, think of the way it travels more like a wormhole.  There's theories that we can shrink and stretch pieces of the universe.  A vessel travelling through space from point A to point B could shrink the space in front of it toward point B, then once it passes this space, it stretches that same space back to its original size behind it.

Did you get that theory from "A Wrinkle in Time"? I swear I've heard that before, and I vaguely remember it being in that book.

 
Quote
Originally posted by winna:
Futurama has also suggested that the speed of light is not the constant we once believed it was.  The speed of light was changed in the 23rd century.... there's scientific evidence to suggest that this is itself also true...  Increasing the speed of light increases the speed at which most objects can traverse the universe.

Since you're bringing up the speed of light, I just wanted to ask you this one science question:

"If a car is traveling at the speed of light, and puts its high beams on, how fast is the light of the high beams traveling?"
winna

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« Reply #16 on: 07-08-2008 20:35 »
« Last Edit on: 07-08-2008 20:35 »

I got that theory from a scientific show on Discovery a number of years ago... or an old Discover magazine.... it probably originated from somewhere else, and it's possible it was proposed in A Wrinkle in Time.

Science would suggest that the light from the high beams would be travelling at the same speed as the car.... if this were possible.  We don't exactly have evidence from an experiment to base that answer on.  The closest we have is shining a beam of light from say a flashlight out of a car travelling at normal earth speeds, say 60 mph...  The light beam travels at the speed of light, not the speed of light plus 60mph.

This is of course different from other objects.  A baseball thrown out of that same car traveling at 60mph would go at a combined velocity of what it was thrown at and the 60mph.  Clearly light has special properties attributed to it.
Anarchy_Balsac
Bending Unit
***
« Reply #17 on: 07-08-2008 22:05 »

Interesting winna, I actually posted a similar theory about the anomaly at the infosphere. Although I thought of it more as several anomalies, the images at the end of BBS(specifically the one of it overshadowing the milkyway) would make more sense of your theory.
futz
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #18 on: 07-08-2008 22:25 »

Yep, it travels at the speed of light in all directions the reflector and lens direct the little wavicle thingies. You may mean that it's counter-intuitive rather than counter-science winna. Science has known about it at least since Einstien. I asked a similar question of my high school physics teacher: Two light emitting sources are each travelling at a little more than 1/2 the speed of light toward the point of collision. Can one be seen from the point of view of the other. Answer: Yes.

Within the last year or two they finally got around to measuring the speed at which gravitational pull travels. Guess what it is, yep 186,000 miles per second. THings that make you go hmmmm...

There are some souped-up laser/gas-filled chamber, etc. experiments where researchers have gotten photons to scoot faster than the speed of light. Essentially, it is possible to get a beam of light to emit from one of these devices before it enters. But the trick, from what I understand, the first out photons are not the first in photons, more like photons that were already in line ahead of the first in.
soylentOrange

Urban Legend
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« Reply #19 on: 07-09-2008 08:23 »

 
Quote
"If a car is traveling at the speed of light, and puts its high beams on, how fast is the light of the high beams traveling?"

well, first of, a car can't travel at the speed of light.  It would literally take an infinite amount of energy to get it to accelerate it to that speed.  If it was instead moving at just a tiny bit less than the speed of light, that's different. 

if c is the speed of light, and the speed of the car is .9999999c, and it turns on its headlights, then the light that is emmited travels at the speed of light.  Light must travel the same sped in all reference frames.  The way that it does this is by altering the rate at which time passes.  A clock mounted on the car's dashboard would run slower that a clock that was, say, sitting by the side of the road.  Since speed is defined by the passage of time, somebody in the car measuring the relative speed of the car to the light being emmited from the headlights would be able to measure the same thing as someone standing by the side of the road.

ALequalsGREAT

Starship Captain
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« Reply #20 on: 07-09-2008 10:55 »
« Last Edit on: 07-14-2008 00:00 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frida Waterfall:
Did you get that theory from "A Wrinkle in Time"? I swear I've heard that before, and I vaguely remember it being in that book.
The first example that came to mind for me was Frank Herbert's Dune series, I haven't read Madeleine L'Engle so long I honestly don't remember the analogy used but I'll bet it is similar.
I think Winna brings up a great point by mentioning the multi-dimensional theory; I know relatively little about physics (I was more of a Chem guy), but have always been fascinated by it. We have such a basic understanding of our universe and its dimensions (last I heard there it was proposed there were at least 12 dimensions?) and I would imagine that the laws of Shklee's electro-matter universe diverge from ours  quite a bit.
Additionally, as Soylent said, the energy used in anything close to light speed is so incredible that living beings would be atomized (not to mention what happens to time when forces like that are involved). I am completely on board with the "moving the universe"/"folding space" idea.
   cool
 
Quote
Originally posted by futz:
Within the last year or two they finally got around to measuring the speed at which gravitational pull travels. Guess what it is, yep 186,000 miles per second. THings that make you go hmmmm...
I didn't know they did that! Was it actually measuring gravitons? I have to check this out    eek
futz
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #21 on: 07-09-2008 11:18 »
« Last Edit on: 07-09-2008 11:18 »

Don't recall the methodolgy offhand but I think it was more like how soon one mass's motion effects another mass rather than getting down to the graviton level.


Or the gravioli level.   smile
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #22 on: 07-09-2008 15:05 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by winna:
... There's theories that we can shrink and stretch pieces of the universe.  A vessel travelling through space from point A to point B could shrink the space in front of it toward point B, then once it passes this space, it stretches that same space back to its original size behind it.
You’ve just described ‘Warp-Drive” from Star Trek Start-Wreck...  wink
Ralph Snart

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« Reply #23 on: 07-09-2008 15:19 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by SpaceCase:
 
You’ve just described ‘Warp-Drive” from Star Trek Start-Wreck...   wink

Actually, if you want to mention Star Wreck (The VERY best sci-fi satire ever made), then it's called the Twist Drive.    big grin
winna

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« Reply #24 on: 07-09-2008 18:12 »
« Last Edit on: 07-09-2008 18:12 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by futz:
You may mean that it's counter-intuitive rather than counter-science winna.

I stand corrected. 

And I never said the theory I proposed was new... but people not familiar with it may not understand the implications...  Its usage is almost certainly abundant in science fiction, but it has a real world counterpart and is certainly in the realm of plausibility.  It's also possible the planet express ship moves space in a different manner than what I described....  It may actually accelerate space itself versus moving the ship.... space being more empty than matter, it seems reasonable that it could potentially be capable of travelling at faster than light speeds.  We are talking about 1000 years of technological advances here.  Kind of like asking someone from the eleventh century how a computer works.
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #25 on: 07-10-2008 00:17 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
Actually, if you want to mention Star Wreck...
Ahm, no...
I refer to a pun DXC (I think) made in one of the vol. 1 commentaries.
i_c_weiner

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #26 on: 07-10-2008 10:51 »

I posted this in the "The Why of Fry" thread...
 
Quote
My theory is that the time sphere causes a "bypass" from the points of time travel, both to and from. Thus, when the duplicate comes to the point of "from" (the present) the duplicate is doomed. Likewise, the "from" people have no recollection of the "bypass" events because they had gone through the "business route" (regular time). (Yes, I'm comparing time travel to a highway.) In this way, the 3007 selves would know nothing of the alternate past because they had lived through the "business route" rather than the "bypass" created by the time sphere.

For example, Lars would continue to live on the "bypass" and, upon meeting up with the "business route", would be doomed. To explain the tear in the universe, the massive new bypass created by Bender meeting all the other Benders caused a collapse where the bypass and business routes meet, tearing the fabric of space-time and, thus, the universe. Yivo was just there for the ride.
captyesterday

Crustacean
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« Reply #27 on: 07-10-2008 13:31 »

light doesent have a combined velocity of the car in the frist place and if you turned the headlights on they would be ahead of the speed of light but not faster than.if you are talking about the speed of light how int the world did the anomaly in bwabb reach earth if everyone in thee universe was in love with yivo meaning the golden stairway to heaven would mean the anomaly would have to be close to the back of the universe to have a giANT stairway to reach it thus the light from the anomaly could not have reached earth before in time
dr.bender nye

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #28 on: 07-12-2008 21:44 »
« Last Edit on: 07-12-2008 21:44 »

I think it's Groening's ol' FOX magic, like Disney.
captyesterday

Crustacean
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« Reply #29 on: 07-13-2008 13:56 »

fox magic the anwser to all problems
Frisco17

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #30 on: 07-13-2008 19:03 »

Don't you mean the cause of all problems?
ALequalsGREAT

Starship Captain
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« Reply #31 on: 07-14-2008 12:15 »
« Last Edit on: 07-14-2008 12:15 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by captyesterday:.if you are talking about the speed of light how int the world did the anomaly in bwabb reach earth if everyone in thee universe was in love with yivo meaning the golden stairway to heaven would mean the anomaly would have to be close to the back of the universe to have a giANT stairway to reach it thus the light from the anomaly could not have reached earth before in time
I thought of that as an "everywhere at once" idea; Yivo belonged to a different dimension and it affected how shklee interacted with ours. That sort of omnipresence is the only way I could imagine Shklim able to interact simultaneously. Our "time" and "space" don't apply to Shkler.
I am sure this was already discussed elsewhere but I haven't seen it yet
Also, punctuation makes a post much easier on the eyes. Thanks   big grin

captyesterday

Crustacean
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« Reply #32 on: 07-14-2008 14:49 »

yivo didnt make the rip multiple benders did
ALequalsGREAT

Starship Captain
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« Reply #33 on: 07-14-2008 15:04 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by captyesterday:
yivo didnt make the rip multiple benders did

I don't understand what that has to do with my response exactly, but I was giving you my impression of how Yivo was able to do the things that shklee did...take it or leave it of course   wink
captyesterday

Crustacean
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« Reply #34 on: 07-17-2008 10:13 »

yesbut yevo didnt cause the anomaly shkle didnt have have anything to do with it shklee was just on the other side of it
ALequalsGREAT

Starship Captain
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« Reply #35 on: 07-17-2008 11:33 »
« Last Edit on: 07-17-2008 11:33 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by captyesterday:
yesbut yevo didnt cause the anomaly shkle didnt have have anything to do with it shklee was just on the other side of it

Yes, that is true (as far as we know anyway...  roll eyes )
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