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Author Topic: Bender's Big Score Question (Spoilers!)  (Read 900 times)
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LoRdSyN

Poppler
*
« on: 12-07-2007 16:24 »

OK I'm TOTALLY confused about the whole Time Travel thing

Can someone please explain to me how a paradox(ical) duplicate is created? cuz if its how I think it's done, then I'm REALLY confused about the whole going back in time scenario for Fry and Lars... among other things.
RobotDevilRox

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #1 on: 12-08-2007 12:37 »

Go back in time. Go back in time again five seconds later to just before you arrived from time travelling the first time. When time catches up, there are two of you, and the one who time travelled the second time is the original. Oh boy, I've confused myself...
PazuzuJr

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #2 on: 12-08-2007 13:06 »

To creat a paradox duplicate then a person needs to go back in time to a time where they were alive.
It's like nudar at the begining. He went black in time to yesterday while the originol him was still alive So he could meet up with 'himself' and there would be two of him.
Like fry goes back in time to about 2000 so there are 2 of him - the one who has gone back in time and the one in the freezer.

But on the otherhand bender doesn't create a duplicate because he goes back i time thousands of years, long before he was born, and doesn't return until he has gone back in time again.

It makes sense to me.
Wet Blanket

Crustacean
*
« Reply #3 on: 12-08-2007 13:39 »
« Last Edit on: 12-08-2007 13:39 »

Oh, praise Zombie Jesus! Finally a relevant place to insert my convoluted rationalization of duplicate creation without having to crowbar it in like i did in another topic.

-ahem- This is the way i underdstand how Fry used the time code twice, yet only created one duplicate (Lars), not two, and also why this duplicate who was cursed with an untimely death was able to live for 1007 years.

When someone goes to the past, meets themself, and disrupts their own history such that the past version never ends up using the time code like it should, that past version who deviated from its course becomes a duplicate, whom the universe quickly kills off to balance things out.

So when Fry used the time code twice, his earliest version who was already frozen was saved from becoming a duplicate because the most recent version just hid for 1007 years and did NOT cause the earliest version to stray from the course that eventually led it back in time. And so the most recent version just resumed normal life immediately after the earliest version lived up to 3007 and went back in time like it was supposed to. Which basically makes them one person, neither one being the other's duplicate.

However, Fry used the time code twice, leaving a second most recent version to account for. And the most recent Fry DID interfere with the second most recen't Fry's path to the next time code by meeting him in the cryogenics lab, leading to Bender chasing him off. This disrupted the middle Fry from using the timecode for the second time at the Panucci's, like he was supposed to, and so he became a doomed duplicate.

But if the middle Fry were doomed, why did it live all the way to the future? Well i feel that the doom only kicks in when a duplicate lives up to the time code that got everything started. Assuming this, one could say that Lars should have been doomed when he lived up to the time code he didn't cause at Panucci's an hour later, but it appears that the universe generously defaults to the original time code that got the ball rolling. Which gave Lars a whole 1007 years of wiggle room in which to live and learn and love.

Similarly, Nudar prevented his past self from eventually going back in time by interacting with it, making it a doomed duplicate as soon as it caught up to the time code that it never caused. I feel that it was only from that point on that Nudar's duplicate was doomed.

I'll edit the post if i come up with a more user friendly version of it. If the movie was tough, then this mish mash can't be much easier.

EDIT: Please disregard the edit label below. There was no simplification going on here. Just fixing some grammatical errors. Now it should at least be a little easier to not understand.
Bendersfan1221

Space Pope
****
« Reply #4 on: 12-08-2007 15:01 »

That makes sense... I guess. My brain is not working to full capcity at the moment.
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #5 on: 12-08-2007 15:46 »
« Last Edit on: 12-08-2007 15:46 »

Maybe it's just the way the Time Sphere works, it doesn't create secondary doom fields. One Doom Field will resolve all time duplicates eventually.

Wet Blanket

Crustacean
*
« Reply #6 on: 12-08-2007 16:07 »

I think that lays it out perfectly, futz. A picture is worth a thousand words. Or in the case of my last post, about ten thousand.

Lars' longevity must mean that the doom field only resides at the moment of the original sphere.
Nerd-o-rama

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #7 on: 12-08-2007 16:28 »

It also explains why Fry (the one who froze himself until 3007) wasn't doomed for the 1007ish years that there were three of him, and then became the "primary" Fry once Fry went back in time the first time (from his perspective).

The "copy" is only doomed if two versions of the person exist after the person goes back in time in the first place.

Which makes no sense causally, but it seems to fit the "paradox correction" used in this movie.  I approve of this theory.
PazuzuJr

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #8 on: 12-09-2007 08:18 »

wow. That picture has somed up.... nearly everything. Id like to see one don'e for bender who used the code 100s or even 1000s of times
dr.bender nye

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #9 on: 12-09-2007 12:42 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by PazuzuJr:
wow. That picture has somed up.... nearly everything. Id like to see one don'e for bender who used the code 100s or even 1000s of times
But we don't exactly know how many off screen times he went back to the past
PazuzuJr

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #10 on: 12-09-2007 15:50 »

someone could always count the thousands of Bender's at the end...
Nerd-o-rama

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #11 on: 12-09-2007 18:03 »

So if the Doom Field only kicks in when there are duplicates present after the initial point of time travel, that means that Doom only happens when the actions of a time-traveler prevent him from going back in time, as with Nudar, Lars or the mass of Benders at the end (he stopped himself from coming upstairs and going back for more loot each time).  That's an interesting corollary.

Of course, the exception to this is Hermes.  His case is very odd, since Bender just took the body of an earlier Hermes and brought it forward.  So Hermes lost his body twice, one coming with Bender who took it off-screen, and one smushed under the Planet Express ship.  This is obviously a paradox, and is resolved in the same way as the others, but doesn't line up neatly in description with the other ones.  I'll have to think about this one...

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futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #12 on: 12-09-2007 19:52 »

The only thing I can think of is that the Benders coming up from the basement were all Sphere dupes made by Bender in the past. We do see Bender using the Sphere this way in the year 2000 scenes without concern. It would mean more loot and original Bender having to do less work.

Bender could have Sphere duped a sleeping Hermes in the past without original Hermes being aware of it just like the Professor being unaware of who lopped off his hand.


Nixorbo

UberMod
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #13 on: 12-09-2007 23:48 »

 http://www.peelified.com/cgi-bin/Futurama/3-001206-1/
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