ivan_fry
Bending Unit
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« on: 11-08-2006 03:49 »
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Recently myself, as well as fifteen or so friends, watched disc four of Futurama Season 4 (The Farnsworth Parabox, Three Hundred Big Boys, Spanish Fry, The Devil's Hands Are Idle Playthings). I'm not going to talk about the first two episodes as much as I will about the last two, because SF and TDHAIP are the best examples for what I am going to say. I haven't really been at PEEL much. I am more frequently found at the NHC, which specializes more in Simpsons discussion. There, a lot of fans dislike sex jokes, testicle jokes, fart jokes, and the like, so I suppose the same would most likely apply for Futurama fans. Anyway, when we watched Spanish Fry, which is basically a 20-minute 'joke fest' (which I give only a 3 out of 5 due to the sexual nature of the story), everyone was laughing whenever there was a "lower horn" joke, or Bender's "Whooo"'s (of which I enjoyed only the latter, and cringed almost everytime all the other people were in fits of laughter). What shocked me even more was when we watched Devil's Hands, at the end (after one of the most dramatic as well as touching scenes in the entire series) everyone [minus me] passed it off as one of the worst pieces of television they had ever seen. Now, I am the only 'hardcore' fan out of that group, I don't think some of the others had even seen Futurama beforehand [it hasn't been on here tv here since it's cancellation], but I really didn't like the fact that no one except me actually paid much attention to the storyline and what was actually happening (everyone else was more paying attention to stupid one-liners or visual jokes rather than any character emotion). Like I said above, the other people are really more of 'casual' viewers, so they probably wouldn't even know Devil's Hands was the last episode of the show ever made, but even if it wasn't then it's emotion, as well as the great work and writing put into it would have still made it one of the greatest episodes of all time (which raises another question: would Devil's Hands have been as good if it were not made to be the final episode?). Of course, hardcore fans would see and explore the show a totally different way to casual viewers, but to me it only seems a lot of casual viewers only watch the show for the sake of a cheap laugh, rather than actually noticing anything heartfelt and meaningful that the characters say. What are your opinions?
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coldangel
DOOP Secretary
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Casual viewers come for the laughs. Diehard fans stay for the pathos. There is room for both types, and the more people who watch the better the ratings... of course. The show is one of the rarities that lends itself to both types of viewers. Usually shows with ongoing story arcs and mythologies inevitably pigeonhole themselves into appealing to die-hard fans only, because they become inaccessible to the casual viewer due to their inherent complexity. This is especially true of science fiction shows that whittle their audience down to the scant few who are committed enough to keep up with hundreds of episodes worth of back-story. It's slow death. Futurama, on the other hand, has discovered a healthy medium between light froth and ongoing mythology that is friendly to a wide audience of geeks and non-geeks.
Re: low-brow humour in Spanish Fry - I think the lewd jokes were intended as being cringe-inducing. I laughed at the fact the jokes were being told, not the jokes themselves, if you catch my drift. It was making a mockery of the characters' own immaturity and by extension the immaturity of anyone who would find those jokes genuinely amusing.
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ivan_fry
Bending Unit
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Originally posted by coldangel_1:Re: low-brow humour in Spanish Fry - I think the lewd jokes were intended as being cringe-inducing. I laughed at the fact the jokes were being told, not the jokes themselves, if you catch my drift. It was making a mockery of the characters' own immaturity and by extension the immaturity of anyone who would find those jokes genuinely amusing. I do agree with what you said about how it seems to be intended, because basically the whole episode is a whole heap of low brow jokes (from as early as a minute or two in with the "droppings of someone who saw bigfoot" right up until the closing seconds with Lrrr and Ndnd having sex in the forest); I think the main reason I actually felt uncomfortable with the people surrounding me actually finding a lot of this to be hilarious was probably because I was the only one that that knew there is basically no other episode of the show that is all-the-way-through lowbrow humour (or, at least to my recollection). There was actually a "joke" i forgot to say in my first post, which is from Three Hundred Big Boys. The shot of Mushu barfing at first was "sort of" humorous, but the overall length actually causes me to feel queasy and makes me cringe (probably moreso than anything from Spanish Fry), but like the outcome of all the above examples from Spanish Fry, everyone else seemed to find this lowbrow humour in Three Hundred Big Boys to be absolutely wonderful. But I suppose you would have to watching the episodes of the show over and over until you actually start appreciating them. I will admit, the first time I watched a lot of episodes of Futurama, I didn't understand a lot of it and paid hardly any attention to what was going on, but now I actually watch it for great moments (as well as the ocassional laughs) like in Devil's Hands, Luck of the Fryrish, and Jurassic Bark. (Dave B, I read your post too, and I agree with absolutely everything you said).
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coldangel
DOOP Secretary
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It is a multi-faceted gem.
You can thank the show for illuminating the idiocy of those around you that you may secretly laugh at them when their backs are turned. Don't feel uncomfortable - just feel superior.
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LuvFry
Bending Unit
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Well, the very first ep of the show I saw was "The Honking"- and not the full ep. I came in when Car Bender is chasing Leela. I had no idea what was going on, so I chalked it up to a Simpsons halloween ep, and went on my merry way. The next ep I saw was "The Sting"-again not the full ep- this time I came in at the very end, Fry's picture telling Leela he loved her, and Leela waking up. I was hooked. For one, I had no idea what the heck was going on, and now it involved a love story. Now I wanted to figure out this ep and this show that I had previously believed to be a Simpsons copy, so I attempted to watch the show, but never could thanks to Fox and its irregular viewing times. Eventually I found out it was on Cartoon Network, and I began watching it faithfully. To reply to the original posting (finally) I think it is hard for people who are not hard core fans to pick up all of the subtleties of the show. I, too had to watch them more than once. I also think it has to do with how willing you are to dedicate your time to figuring a show out. Me, I just searched on-line to get the general break-down of the plot. I probably wouldn't have given the show a second thought if I hadn't seen the end of "The Sting." Just goes to show how much of a girl I am. Oh, and I love "The devil's hands..." but, could it be that certain people are turned off by it because it's parodying operatic plot? Anywho, people who aren't invested in the relationship (or lack there of) between Fry and Leela, may have found the ep boring. Not me, I am far too invested in this relationship. As stated above, I am such a girl! In an attempt to quote Matt Groening from the DVD commentary (don't remember which ep, or if it was even MG who said it, or if this is even close to what he said): "Sci-fi fans have been waiting for everyone to burst into song. We're just fulfilling that fantasy." Feel free to correct me. Man, I should really watch the DVDs again, if only to figure out where I got this from. The logical place to start would be in the musical episodes, but since I have never been logical: To the first episode!
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coldangel
DOOP Secretary
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Simpsons = family sitcom = fairly shallow.
Futurama = space adventure with ongoing mythology, complex characters and sci-fi hilarity = quite a lot deeper.
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coldangel
DOOP Secretary
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What? You mean about the fish? YOU WERE THINKING THAT TOO?? What are the odds...? Okay, I'll meet you down at the sea-food Co-Op and we'll buy a couple of the biggest Stergeons we can find to beat those TV execs with.
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transgender nerd under canada
DOOP Ubersecretary
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I believe that there is a middle ground in between die-hard fanboy who thinks he understands, and casual armchair critic who doesn't care what it means as long as he's laughing.
The majority of "active PEEL" falls into this middle group. They do understand the majority of it, but also understand that there are layers that they probably haven't managed to peel back yet. At the same time, they're not rabid foaming-at-the-mouth "OMGILUVFUTRAMMA" idiots. They like it, they may like Family Guy or The Simpsons more, they probably prefer Firefly, but they do like Futurama, and they do understand the show.
If you're not in this group, if you're at one end or the other, then you won't agree.
However, in the event that you do disagree with me, you're wrong, and that's fine. Because you're entitled to hold an opinion, even if your opinion isn't worth shit.
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Crash_7
Professor
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The thing about "The Devil's Hands..." is if you haven't seen "Parasites Lost" and "Hell is Other Robots", your enjoyment of it is going to be greatly diminished.
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coldangel
DOOP Secretary
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It's difficult to explain the show to non-geeks who only watch it as a comedy. It has so much to say about fate and predestiny; humanity and the worth of a person.
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coldangel
DOOP Secretary
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The planet is divided into those who truly 'get' works of fiction, and those who do not.
The first group must destroy the second and claim dominion of the Earth. WHO'S WITH ME?!
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coldangel
DOOP Secretary
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Let us rise up and crush the unbelieving philistines that we may inherit this Earth and begin the thousand years of debate about what colours the characters' eyes would be if they had irises!!
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futz
Liquid Emperor
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Bender probably realized a day or two later that it was in the trash can right where Robot Devil left it.
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coldangel
DOOP Secretary
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master616... I'm not sure what you're a master of, but it isn't punctuation. Put some periods into your writing, don't just let sentences flow together like some kind of mutant train of thought.
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Robot Santa
Poppler
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I found this topic very interesting, I consider myself pretty diehard as a fan and I wonder how you other diehards regard "Bender Should Not be Allowed on TV", which is my least favorite episode. Spanish Fry is pretty near the bottom, too. What really bugs me about BSNBAOTV is the great premise, which is utterly wasted. However, browsing this website I find that BSNBAOTV gets pretty good reviews. Are they from the casual viewers, or am I the only one who hates this particular episode?
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roustie
Poppler
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I don't think it's so much "understanding" the show, it's more of knowing the story line of the show. I think Crash_7 said it best, if you haven't seen those two episodes then you can't really understand the final one.
Really, if you don't know the relationship between Fry and Leela, you won't see where that storyline is coming from.
So it does have to do with casual fans over dedicated fans, because the dedicated ones are obviously the ones that have seen every episode, and like the intricacies of the relationships.
Generally speaking, I think a lot of people don't care about such stories that they have to follow along with. They want a quick laugh, or some passionate sex scene, or some violence. It's pretty simple.
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NJ_Bella
Crustacean
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Originally posted by coldangel_1: Simpsons = family sitcom = fairly shallow.
Futurama = space adventure with ongoing mythology, complex characters and sci-fi hilarity = quite a lot deeper. i agree. i also feel (which i've stated in another thread i believe) that most people tend to follow family guy more than any other cartoon show these days. in my opinion family guy is ok. it's mostly full of one-liners and sight gags, which i believe to get old. futurama on the other hand has a story behind it as well as one-liners and sight gags which makes it stand the test of time in my opinion.
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roustie
Poppler
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Originally posted by NJ_Bella: it's mostly full of one-liners and sight gags, which i believe to get old.
futurama on the other hand has a story behind it as well as one-liners and sight gags which makes it stand the test of time in my opinion.
I agree with that. Also: Family Guy rips off quite a bit. Not even in the way that everybody rips off everything, I mean they directly lift jokes and even characters from other sources and call them as their own. Also, the Simpsons didn't used to be fairly shallow, it used to be really, really good with meaning and funniness and a full gammet of emotions. Then about 4/5 years back it just started going downhill. It used to be really intelligent, you all remember that?
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NJ_Bella
Crustacean
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Originally posted by roustie: I agree with that. Also: Family Guy rips off quite a bit. Not even in the way that everybody rips off everything, I mean they directly lift jokes and even characters from other sources and call them as their own.
Also, the Simpsons didn't used to be fairly shallow, it used to be really, really good with meaning and funniness and a full gammet of emotions. Then about 4/5 years back it just started going downhill. It used to be really intelligent, you all remember that? thanks for the comment and agreeing!! to be fair the simpsons have been on for what, 18 years? that's a long time to provide fresh, interesting, and funny shows. they are bound to lose something after all that time.
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