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Author Topic: Physics in Futurama  (Read 1921 times)
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SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #40 on: 10-27-2006 00:16 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Apple Tea:
I remember something from quantum physics about when traveling at speeds near the speed of light, time and the length you travel is different.
That’s actually Relativity.
Quote
Originally posted by fryandlemon:
... the stars in the "I love you Leela" were about a thousand years old(very possible), so would be considered old light... So would they still see the stars in tact in their original positions before they were moved into the message, or not?
[*Toing!*]

Hey... You’re right.
The starlight from Fry’s note, being produced by stars created before “C” was increased, would travel at the “old,” slower, speed of light, and therefore might be visible from Earth on the crew's return!
I sense a strong disturbance in “The Force...”
Mmm...
Nope, must be something I ate...
In which case, I’m feeling the possibilities for a hundred new fic’s ...  big grin
Apple Tea

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #41 on: 10-27-2006 00:58 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Bending Unit 99:
wouldn't that make it like a star is in one place, and that same star is in another place, at the same time?!?!


Naw it would just mean the image of the star is in one place while the actual star is in another.

I still stand by my theory that it would take too long for Fry and Leela to see it from Earth.  I remember reading about a supernova that happened a long time ago and the people of Earth didn't see the actual explosion until like a century after the star exploded.  (sorry about all my fuzzy references, I have crappy memory)
fryandlemon

Bending Unit
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« Reply #42 on: 10-27-2006 01:11 »

Well, seeing is how Leela and Fry are constantly travelling the universe, they could be in the right place at the right time.

I don't know why I keep defending the possibility that Leela will see the stars when I actually hope that's not the case due to the certain ruining of the episode TKOS...
Apple Tea

Bending Unit
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« Reply #43 on: 10-27-2006 01:18 »

Or actually the black hole would suck in the light, and hence the light would never actually escape the nebula...
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #44 on: 10-27-2006 05:02 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Bending Unit 99:
wouldn't that make it like a star is in one place, and that same star is in another place, at the same time?!?!

Nah, it would only *appear* like that as fast light from the star's more recent position overtakes slow light from the old position. The star isn't duplicated, only the image.

SPACECASE - sorry, did you just imply that stars are still producing the old slow light? Confused me a bit there.
Apple Tea

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #45 on: 10-27-2006 05:28 »

You know i just watched the episode again and I just have a question was the ship moving when they detonated the doomsday device?, If they were moving then the light from the stars still reached Fry's eye.

Also how exactly do their jetpacks work in space?

Additionally how was Fry able to look directly at the stars without burning his cornea?
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #46 on: 10-27-2006 05:37 »

Point 1: don't know.

Point 2: You have to assume 'jetpack' is a generic term for any manner of MMU and doesn't actually imply that it's a jet turbine. (This doesn't help to explain how in another episode [I forget which] 'scramjets' are somehow deployed in vacuum).

Point 3: some manner of intelligent laminate within the 'glass'.
dawoodz
Starship Captain
****
« Reply #47 on: 10-27-2006 09:15 »

It's all a conspiracy if you ask me.
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #48 on: 10-27-2006 13:03 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
… sorry, did you just imply that stars are still producing the old slow light? Confused me a bit there.
No, actually. Fryandlemon did.
Quote
Originally posted by Apple Tea:… Also how exactly do their jetpacks work in space?
Exactly?
Exactly the same way rockets do; by ejecting mass as fast as technically possible to produce a reaction force.
Quote
Additionally how was Fry able to look directly at the stars without burning his cornea?
I agree with Coldangel; safties in the windows.
Tim B

Bending Unit
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« Reply #49 on: 10-27-2006 19:16 »
« Last Edit on: 10-27-2006 19:16 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by fryandlemon:
I meant, since the stars would probably be old light, then back on earth, they would be seen not in the message, but where they were before Fry moved them.  Then later on would be seen being moved by Fry.  Or because the explosion was "new light", would they not be able to see anything at all on earth.

Sorry if it's a bit confusing...

Okay.  Let's say the stars that Fry used to form the message are within the Milky Way, and are fairly close(within 20,000 lightyears) and that the stars are at least two million years old.  From Earth they would still be able to see the "old" light produced from the stars 20,000 years ago since it would have taken it that long for the light to travel to Earth.  However, Fry formed the message after the speed of light was increased so that light traveling at the "new" speed would reach Earth nearly instantaneously, so they would never be able to see Fry's message. 
Since the speed of light was increased roughly one thousand years ago, the last of the "old" would finally reach Earth 19,000 years from the year 3000 and the stars would just wink out. The last you would see of those stars from Earth were as they were in the year 2208(since that was the year they increased the speed of light). 
I hope that wasn't too confusing.   wink

 
Quote
Originally posted by fryandlemon:
I don't know why I keep defending the possibility that Leela will see the stars when I actually hope that's not the case due to the certain ruining of the episode TKOS...
Don't worry, she would never be able to see the love note.  I've tried to explain why numerous times.  Hopefully this post helps better explain it.  smile
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #50 on: 10-27-2006 20:55 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Tim B:
  Don't worry, she would never be able to see the love note. 

Without the aid of a certain custom modified DeLorean.
Apple Tea

Bending Unit
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« Reply #51 on: 10-27-2006 21:06 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
 Without the aid of a certain custom modified DeLorean.

lol
Tim B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #52 on: 10-27-2006 22:22 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
 Without the aid of a certain custom modified DeLorean.

Three of the best movies ever.
Bending Unit 99

Bending Unit
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« Reply #53 on: 10-28-2006 00:21 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Apple Tea:
Additionally how was Fry able to look directly at the stars without burning his cornea?

i always wondered that as well, maybe being in space makes them dimmer, lol
fryandlemon

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #54 on: 11-02-2006 20:41 »

Hmmm, you know I wonder how exactly time travel works in Futurama.

There are two main theories (I think) on how time travel works and people's personal opinions.

1. You can change time
Which means:
- you create kind of a parallel universe when you go back and change it. 
      Let's use the example of going back in time to ..i dunno... suppose you went back in time and where able to convince the captain of the Titanic to slow down before he hit the ice field and ended up saving the ship from sinking.  Then there would be two parallel universes:

A - where the Titanic does sink
B - where it doesn't

Make sense?  This is the more commonly believed theory.  It's what we see all the time in media and such.  It makes for an interesting story (back to the future anyone?) and it's easier to contemplate.

A problem arises in this however.  Being able to change time also means being able to create a paradox, which will destroy the universe. 

If time travel really was possible, would the universe let itself be destroyed like that?  Or does it have a better construction of time.  Which brings me to the second theory:

2. You can't change time.

- The universe already has everything planned out, your destiny is already set before you yourself go through it to the end.
- the universe has only one timeline, and only will have one timeline.

Which means, that if you were to go back in time, then you've already done it, without actually doing it yet.

Kind of confusing?  Okay... I'll use the best example I can think of at the moment.

Suppose one day you were going for a stroll in the woods below a cliff and you suddenly get hit in the head with a rock that fell from above.

One week later, you miraculously discover how to time travel and go back one week - to the day you got hit by the rock. 

You go to the same wood as you were in when it happened, but this time you're walking up on the cliff, above your other self.  While walking you end up kicking a rock over the edge - the rock that will hit your other self.

The example from Futurama would be this:
The aliens crashing in Roswell was a well known story before Fry was born, before any of the PE crew were born.  And finally, in the year 3000 (or 3001, 3002, whatever) they go back and fulfil that destiny.  They go back and become that alien ship.  Not changing time, just going through something they have already been through, just not through their own timeline.  Through the universes timeline.

This theory gets rid of the possibility of a paradox, because it rids you the chance of changing time.

Now someone asks, what if you went back in time and killed yourself. 

Well, the universe wouldn’t let you.  Something would happen to prevent this that is out of your hands.  The you that did the time traveling would be stopped somehow.  A boulder might fall on you before you have the chance to meet your other self.

Because of the “Why of Fry,” I see the Futurama writers have gone with the changing time theory and you really can’t argue much about that.

But I really want to hear other people’s opinions on time travel in the real world.  Which theory do you believe in.  Did I make myself clear enough which the second one?  Or is it still confusing?

I tried explaining it to some friends and they misunderstood it completely.  Being firm believers of the changing time theory, they didn’t want to understand it anyway.

I believe the not being able to change time theory makes more sense and I’m a firm believer of it, but I want to hear what everyone thinks!

Err...sorry for the long post, hope someone actually bothers reading it... tongue
Apple Tea

Bending Unit
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« Reply #55 on: 11-02-2006 21:11 »
« Last Edit on: 11-02-2006 21:11 »

Yes, your second theory makes more sense than the first.  Though I don't really understand the episode of the Why of Fry.
He travels back in time and tells nibbler the scooty puff junior sucks.  Then a thousand years later nibbler gives him the scooty puff senior. But this time he wont be stuck in the big brain area when the bomb goes off and hence doesn't travel back in time, so how does nibbler know to give him the scooty puff senior if he didnt travel back in time?
Neither would he know that Nibbler was the one who put him in the freezer tube, but near the end of the episode he tells Nibbler to just ask him next time if they needed a savior.
I hope my question makes sense.  Anyways, time travel has too many pardoxes to make any real concrete conclusions as to what might actually happen.
fryandlemon

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #56 on: 11-03-2006 00:14 »

Exactly!  The Why of Fry creates a big paradox, but I think with that the writers just ended up with a hole in the plot and this was the only way out.

In Roswell that ends well they kept in my second theory nicely.  They were the aliens that crashed into Roswell, and Fry was ALWAYS his grandfather.  Enos was just believed to be the grandfather before that.  Although... hang on, did Fry ever mention Enos being alive when he was?

Anyways, another question I want to ask that relates to time travel theory number 2 is: If you've ever experienced deja vu, what do you think it is?

My theory that I have is that time is unstable.  It can jump back but we have no memory of it, deja vu gives us little slips of memory of something we've already experienced, but forgotten.

Best I came up with on how to explain it.  The only other thing I can think of is we're just getting premonitions....

What is time exactly?  We're so unsure of it.  Clocks are just our perception of time, but it's really more of just a changing in objects around us isn't it?
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #57 on: 11-03-2006 00:50 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by fryandlemon:
      Let's use the example of going back in time to ..i dunno... suppose you went back in time and where able to convince the captain of the Titanic to slow down before he hit the ice field and ended up saving the ship from sinking.  Then there would be two parallel universes:

A - where the Titanic does sink
B - where it doesn't

In real life, while you do create a new timeline, or 'parallel future', at the same time you also eliminate the original relative to the new timeline, effectively erasing the future from whence yourself (the time traveller) came. This is not a paradox - quantum theory allows for the spontaneous emergence of an object (again, the time traveller) that is literally 'from nowhere'.
I'm from the future myself, but stepping into the past had the effect of eliminating that future and replacing it with a different one, where my boot prints mark history. Thus I am a person from nowhere. I can shoot my grandfather and make sure I never get born without causing a paradox. I am from an alternate future that will never exist. This is perhaps the only practical method by which travel between alternate realities can be attained - *CREATE* the alternate reality.
fryandlemon

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #58 on: 11-03-2006 01:03 »

Well, no, that doesn't quite make sense.  You shoot your grandfather, so you don't exist, so you couldn't have shot your grandfather...

The first timeline has existed and you couldn't really erase it.  It was there at one point in time, which leads us back to determining what time is exactly.

Of course all of this is so hard to prove without actually having travelled back in time....

I love debating it though tongue

What do YOU think deja vu is?
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #59 on: 11-03-2006 02:36 »

No no no no. You're thinking of time in strictly linear terms. Time is not linear. It jumps all over the place. I CAN shoot my grandfather. I CAN prevent my own birth. I will still exist, however I will no longer have a past of my own (except in my own memory). I will be an entity that exists in the newly-formed timeline who, relative to said timeline, came from NOWHERE. A John Doe, who nobody has any recollection of.
The first timeline, again RELATIVE to the new one, NEVER existed, except in my own memory. Divergent Universes only exist in theory, but what actually happens is you change your past and in so doing erase your future and replace it with a new future. The only artefact of the erased future that remains in existence is you, the time-traveller.

As I said, I'm actually from the future, so you can trust me on this.  tongue
fryandlemon

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #60 on: 11-03-2006 15:24 »

Ahh! this is getting confusing!  Like it always does.

Ok, yes I am thinking in linear time.  Although I do believe time is unstable and skips backwards all the time, hence deja vu.  But what we don't remember does exist because it DID happen at one point in time, you can't exactly erase time.  It did go on.  You maybe erased the matter that changed in time... damn confusing myself again...

If it existed in your own memory then it had to exist at one point and time.  It HAD to or you wouldn't be here.  That change in matter HAD to happen.  Just because no one else remembers doesn't mean it didn't exist.  Just like deja vu.  If you're there, it HAD to exist.
Remember, time is just what we use to measure changes in objects.  We have no idea what it really is and invented clocks to make ourselves feel better.

I can see what you're trying to say, but you seem to be missing some things in your logic...

But you are contradicting my time can't change theory, so I have to argue tongue 
Wait, unless you're saying that the original timeline was and always was, you're grandfather was walking down a street one day and a random person related to him just pops out of mid air and shoots him.  Which doesn't make sense in terms of physics does it? 

again, i'm confusing myself...  Physics is NOT my strong point... I'll try to stop getting my point across...

And from the future eh?  roll eyes   tongue  Damn I wish there really was a way...
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #61 on: 11-03-2006 15:29 »

Eh, don't take coldangel too seriously. He killed his own grandfather in the past, thus, he's only half in existence.

Also, a time travel thread! Yippie!

totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #62 on: 11-04-2006 18:14 »

Coldangel's quantum time-travel idea would fit the best known models at the moment, replacing the future with another set of possibilities that coalesce into a pattern which is slightly different, however, those vanished patterns would leave a resonance. There would be a tendancy for events in the second reality to try and get back to the situation that existed previously. Yes, the universe would diverge, but much like a record needle going around and around not wanting to skip tracks, it would try to settle into the familar groove that had been left before. Therefore if coldangel killed his grandpappy, another individual very much like the man who had died would become the grandpappy of a coldangel who only differed slightly from the one we know.

Because the universe has an underlying order, and nothing is truly random - even quatum events seem to follow a pattern which scientists have recently announced may have a structure to it that has been pre-programmed.

Proof of God having set events in motion towards a specific endpoint? Or not?

Meh. I'm out of this thread. Too many Sixers saying things that make very little sense.
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #63 on: 11-04-2006 22:29 »

I have have just now transferred my responses over to the time-travel thread where they should appear approximately 45 minutes ago.
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